Welcome To The Platinum Trading Pro System
Membership Site.. THE Premier Stock Training Site Online!
Keep reading to find out exactly how you can create a huge monthly income by making a killing from the market
REGARDLESS of whether it goes up or down!
(This is NOT just for “Traders”. This Pro Trading System is also for ANYONE who has money in the stock market,
or who wants to START making real money from the market… even if you’ve never made a trade in your life.)
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From The Desk Of Dr. John & The Trading Pros
Dear future “Elite” trader,
Let me tell you something I really don’t like, and then I’ll tell you something I do.
I DON’T like seeing good people lose money in the stock market.
Nobody likes losing money though, right? Most of us have been there and done that. Perhaps that’s why I have compassion for the millions of people who are currently losing so much of their financial worth.
Every since the Dot Com bubble burst it seems like people are losing their stock portfolios, losing their 401k’s, losing their jobs due to the sour economy, and just generally getting spanked hard by Wall Street.
Unfortunately, I can’t help the “masses” avoid financial loss.
It’s just a part of how the game is played. Someone is always going to lose money.
But.. I CAN help those who are willing to help themselves. And since you’re here reading this page, that includes you!
In other words, someone is always going to lose money, but that “someone” DOESN’T have to be you!
I said I’d tell you what I like.. and here it is.. actually I love it..
I LOVE helping people achieve success in their lives!
That’s what motivated me to create this Platinum Trading Pro System for you.
You will NOT find this system being taught by ANYONE else, and it absolutely has the potential to drastically change your life for the better!
I’m NOT going to feed you a bunch of “get rich quick” hype either, because that’s not what the course is about, nor is it my style., but what I AM going to do is to get straight to the point and just tell you…
1. What this course is all about
2. What it will do for you
3. What is included
4. How you’ll be able to access it.
This has been 20 YEARS in the making!
First, I want you to know that this program was NOT just conceived in the last few weeks and packaged as a product to sell.
This course is the result and culmination of 20 years of thinking, planning, learning and practicing the material that you will receive.
The reason why I decided to teach you my methods is revealed in this letter. I’m not going to hide anything.
I want to be very clear from the outset…
Unlike many people who teach options and stocks, I am NOT a former market maker or specialist or a licensed professional in the financial industry. I am a retail investor just like you. The difference is that I found a way to be successful and profitable trading stocks and options as a REAL business from my home office.
The business methods I use are also used by professional hedge fund managers and market professionals who rarely, if ever, talk about their strategies.
So you’re probably asking yourself, “Why would he give away these secrets?”
To answer that question, I will tell you that there are three reasons why I want to teach you this business…
1) There’s no reason NOT TO teach you my secrets.
Seriously. I have nothing to lose. The markets are huge and worldwide and anyone can trade them without decreasing the opportunity. In fact it would only make things better. The more traders, the more money we can make and the more liquid the market becomes.
It’s really a win-win-win.
Unlike other businesses – this business only gets BETTER as more people do it.
2) I am a business person, but I am also a teacher.
I was an instructor at a private college in Phoenix for several years, and I love teaching. I also taught meditation for many years, and since 2005 it’s been how to create and run a business on the internet and stock trading. So long story short, teaching is something I love to do.
There are very few people who really understand this business and are willing to teach it to others too.
3) In all honesty, a little extra money from selling this course means more I can put to good use in my trading business too.
Obviously I put my money where I get the largest return for the amount invested. Most of the money I make from selling this course goes directly into my trading business.
I don’t know what your abilities are or how fast you can learn this business as I teach it, so I will never tell you how much you could make but 5% (or much more) per month is a very reachable goal. Returns can be as high as 62.5% (ROM) – that’s $1,000 for every $1,600 invested. And.. if you apply these techniques to trading Penny Stocks, your returns can be MUCH higher!
But let me explain why this course is different from anything you may have seen before…
Most people think the markets are too risky
and their approach is “hit or miss”,
pure speculation, or worse… GAMBLING!
I will tell you right now… my trading system is NOT gambling!
I treat trading as a real business.
In fact, I don’t even consider myself to be an ‘investor’ or ‘speculator’ or ‘trader’ in the traditional sense.
The truth is, and this is exactly how I see myself: I am an entrepreneur. As an entrepreneur I seek opportunities in the market as well as engage in buying and selling activities to generate the highest return on my investment and then simply manage my risk.
My product is options and stocks. I buy and sell them to make money.
All businesses buy and sell to make money – I just do it with stocks and options.
All good businesses manage based on numbers and ratios – I do the same thing – I manage by the numbers!
All businesses plan for profits and create opportunities for the largest return on investment (ROI) possible – I do too, except I create opportunities for the largest return on margin (ROM).
I know exactly what my maximum profits are going to be before I place a trade. I don’t guess or speculate – I have a plan. Then I simply manage the position and, if necessary, adjust my positions to remain profitable or cut my losses through smart risk management techniques and collect my profits at the end of the trading cycle (monthly).
This is an “evergreen” business. Even as the
markets shift, and the economy changes…
my system will always work!
This business will never change… the principles, once you learn them, are yours forever. You could learn these and hand them down to your children and grandchildren.
The basics of this business will never change because the underlying the principles will never change.
That’s why I call it an ‘evergreen’ business.
Unlike franchises or other types of consumer or business-to-business markets, the stock and option markets have been around for hundreds of years. And even though the markets move and change in some ways, the principles have been the same for the past 200+ years.
How did I discover how to start a stock and option business?
One day I woke up one day to find a little extra cash sitting in a money market earning 1.5% a year. The next year it was earning 3%… wow – 3% a year.
I felt my money should be put to better and more productive use and I started looking into all kinds of franchise opportunities and other businesses to invest in… but they all had one drawback – the financial investment was large but so was the investment of time… something I really didn’t have as a father of four.
So after years of ‘hit or miss’ trading I started thinking about trading as a real business about 2 1/2 years ago - buying and selling stocks and options as a ‘business’. I didn’t know if it could be done, but the idea intrigued me. I knew somebody, somewhere was making a killing in the markets and I was determined to find them, learn everything they know and make a killing of my own.
I was determined to run my trading as a business, not as a gambler, and that meant looking at opportunities, supply and demand, marketplace dynamics and managing my business based on solid business fundamentals: profit, loss, expenses, overhead and return on investment.
Like any business my only concern was to buy something that I could sell at a profit – and with enough of a profit margin so that my expenses (although small) were covered leaving me with a consistent and reliable income.
The business of trading has all of these advantages.
Once you know the system, this business can be managed in 15 minutes a day.
It has all the makings of the ‘perfect’ business!
The problem with creating a business based on the markets is that it seems like they are consistently changing and there is a lot of risk!
As you know, the markets go up one day and down the next!
I was really confused which way the market would turn, and since I hated the idea of losing money I tried to “predict” the market’s direction because that’s how I THOUGHT money was made.
I got really, really good at ‘technical analysis’… I THOUGHT that it held the key to profits… if I could tell where the market was headed it would be easy to make money, right?
I learned all about waves and candle sticks, MACD, ADX, CCI, Bollinger Bands and Fibonacci and hundreds of chart ‘patterns’… and I thought I ‘knew’ something’ about the future of the market!
Frankly, technical indicators are like crutches – they only help to support and validate your trading ideas already formed in your mind. They do not help you become a better trader or see the reality of the market. There are only 3 technical indicators you need to run this business: support, resistance and trend lines. That’s’ it. We keep it simple. Simple makes me money.
I also discovered the TOP 1% of all traders do the EXACT opposite of what I tried to do when I first got started (predict the market)… The fact is…
Top traders NEVER try to predict the market -
they only manage risk.
Most of the elite traders don’t care if the market goes up or down – they make money either way. They use charts sparingly.
All top traders do is manage their risk and take advantage of the only truths of the market – the ONLY absolute truths of the market.
For stocks that ONE Absolute Truth is this:
1) All stocks fluctuate in price.
For options there are two Absolute Truths:
1) All options fluctuate in price and
2) All options expire.
The top traders learn to respect these rules because they are the ONLY truths of the market.
You might think there are other truths but there aren’t–
Everything you hear about the market outside these 2 rules is hearsay, opinion, commentary and even complete fantasy.
Of course you will never hear anyone on CNBC even mention these 2 rules because they would have nothing to report!
Can you imagine Maria Bartiromo saying, “Prices fluctuated today. Have a nice evening everyone! I’m outta here!”
I don’t think so!
So the top traders respect these rules because they are so powerful and it helps them cut through the ‘market noise’.
Then they design their trading business around these rules to TAKE ADVANTAGE of them.
Once they see an opportunity they jump on it and simply manage their business ’by the numbers’ and, for me it takes 15 minutes – sometimes less – a day.
How much can you make? Frankly, it depends on your capital, ability to learn, and your ability to maintain your discipline in this business.
Don’t be concerned about how much you have to start your investment business (even though I had a considerable amount of money I could invest, I started mine with a small amount so I could learn this business). Just learn the skills and reinvest your profits – they will grow quickly.
Have you lost your CONFIDENCE?
If you’ve lost money in the market it can destroy your confidence. My system will allow you to trade with 100% confidence again because instead of hoping to make a profit by guessing what to do, you’ll have a plan.
Remember what I said at the top of this letter… this is not about hype. I will never guarantee you will make money with this business because I can’t tell how you’ll use the information that I’m going share with you. Your success in your investment business depends on only one thing: The decisions YOU make.
The only way for you to make the right decisions is by having superior knowledge. Once you understand how to REALLY make money, you will trade with total confidence. That’s what I can do for you and I do not say it lightly, it’s true.
Also, I cannot give you official investment advice because I am not an investment adviser registered with the SEC and I am not a CFP (certified financial planner), so if you watch the videos and you see me trading a certain ETF or stock please do not interpret it as a recommendation.
I can show you exactly what I do, and how I do it. I’ll teach you virtually everything I know about this business; but the actual decisions you make with your money is up to only one person: You.
I can tell you with a high degree of certainty though -
There is no one who will tell you what I will share with you. No one.
You could pay $5,000 or more to attend the top trading seminars, and you still won’t learn what I’m going to teach you!
I went to a $5,000 ‘high level’, ‘super advanced’ seminar last year put on by a 25 year veteran – a former floor trader and market maker in options on the CBOE.
I went to another 2 years ago that costs $3,000 and I got one tip from it – how to tell if a stock is in a “channel”… no kidding, that was it! 3,000 dollars!
What I’m going to teach you will blow away anything that I learned in any of these seminars. I’m not kidding. In fact, I’d say, in truth, they were almost a waste of my money.
I say ‘almost’ because they did help a little but they lacked practical application of the knowledge they presented – it was mostly theory that left the attendee no better off, in practical terms, than they were when they started.
This course is the real deal…
It really works and very few people (even professionals) teach anyone how to do this. I know this for a fact because I’ve talked to some of the pros, and either they don’t know this system, or else they are not willing to admit it.
But there are a few guys who really know this stuff inside and out (one guy is sort of teaching this and the others are not teaching it at all). I found them and picked their brain over and over until I figured it out and came up with a system based on what they told me.
Most of them didn’t even know how to explain what they do– it’s like instinct to them and they couldn’t express what they did in a step-by-step coherent way, so I really had pull it out of them.
Then I put together what I learned, and came up with a complete business system that anyone can follow.
I’ll just say that I think it will surprise you how profitable and easy it is to run – and just 15 minutes a day is all you need.
On the other hand, if you want to make this a full-time business – you can! There are plenty of opportunities to make even more money if you have more time to devote to this business.
So let’s see if you’re the right kind of person to take this course:
Have you been in the market as an investor and been disappointed with the results?
Do you stay away from the markets because you think they are too risky?
Are you confused by technical and fundamental analysis?
Would you like to stop GUESSING which direction the markets are going, and take the professional approach to trading as a business?
Does the idea of managing your business ‘by the numbers’ make sense to you?
Does the idea of trading stocks and options as a real business sound good to you?
If you answered ‘YES’ to any ONE or more of the questions above, I think you would be a good candidate for this training.
Here’s what you’ll be getting in the course…
There are a total of 41 videos within the course. The videos are grouped into several “Modules”, with each Module containing ‘hands-on’ videos walking you through the topics covered.
We use videos because you can SEE exactly what to do as you learn, and you can watch them over and over again (if necessary) to review and build your understanding.
You can watch these videos directly on your computer… we will give you a username and password to access them anytime of the day or night – whenever it’s convenient for your schedule.
In addition, you will have permanent access to these videos and you will also receive any new ones we add at a later date!
The Modules in the course include:
INTRODUCTION TO TRADING AS A BUSINESS & TRADING WITH CONFIDENCE
This Module is designed to introduce you to a new way to trade stocks and options - as a business. Emphasis is on risk management and building a portfolio of trades that can be managed ‘by the numbers’. Learning the craft, acquiring the skills required to be successful in this business. This Module contains over 4 hours of great teaching!
THE GREEKS – MANAGING BY THE NUMBERS
The ‘greeks’ play a critical role in your trading business. I totally de-mystify them and tell you exactly what the greeks are and, in practical, easy to understand language demonstrate how they impact your business. The greeks are the numbers you need to understand to manage your portfolio profitably.
Special report included! I’m also including the most comprehensive, yet easy to read 5 page CONFIDENTIAL REPORT on how to profit from “The Greeks” available in the world (yes, the world, and no, I’m not kidding).
TRADE SELECTION AND STRATEGY
We’ve set the stage, now it’s time to get on with the work at hand. This is where things get good and interesting. What positions do we take? How do we determine when and how? Do ‘charts’ matter? What is the big picture behind what we’re doing?
This Module goes in depth with FIVE videos covering EEM, ADSK, DIA, SPY, and IWM (Don’t worry, you’ll understand it all later!)
BUILDING A PORTFOLIO
Build a portfolio by putting on positions that work together. This is where many traders go wrong – they put on individual positions and do not understand how they affect your overall portfolio. You’ll discover why diversification in time frames, prices and strategies is a key to making money.
This is simply fundamental to being a good investor.
THE TOOLS OF THE TRADE
ThinkorSwim (TOS), in my opinion is the best broker and has the best trading platform available. If you had to pay separately for the kind of analysis tools they give you as an account holder it would cost you many hundreds of dollars a month in fees – with TOS they’re free. I take you inside the TOS platform and help you access the power you have at your finger tips.
(There are other programs/software that you can use to analyze your trades, but TOS is also free when you open an account.)
PORTFOLIO MANAGEMENT BY THE GREEKS, ADJUSTMENTS, VIX and More…
Now that we have built our portfolio, how do we manage it by the numbers? We learned the greeks, so now it’s time to put them into action. The key to success is knowing how to look at the numbers and know, without a doubt, what they mean and what to do with them if anything.
This module includes 5 killer videos with real life examples as I manage a portfolio.
THE ART OF ADJUSTMENTS – THE SECRET KEY
What happens when our numbers don’t look good? This is where 99% of all traders get killed in the market… they have no clue what to do when a position goes against them and they lose money. It’s too bad because most trades can be saved to make a profit!
Imagine making one small change to your position and increasing your odds of making a profit by 80%! That’s what adjusting can do for you!
In Trading As A Business, we KNOW what to do. We trade with confidence. We know and understand that when a trade goes against us it’s an OPPORTUNITY to add to our portfolio by adjusting. I call it Smart Allocation of Capital. The art of adjustments is the missing link in trading options and stocks that almost no one teaches.
How and when to close positions, and how to close them for maximum profits. The risks of holding positions into expiration week. When and how to ‘buy’ short-term insurance to protect your profits and increase your wealth in expiration week. How to close positions and get free trades left over that, although small, have a chance of DOUBLING our profits.
This module contains 5 videos, and the key theme here is MAXIMIZING our profits!
THE BIG PICTURE – TECHNICAL ANALYSIS
What kinds of technical analysis help us in our business? There are only a few key analysis tools that can help you determine the probabilities of market direction and I tell you exactly what those are. I’ll give you insights into why the market moves the way it does.
I’ll also give you a historical perspective on market movements going back to 1900 and give you a realistic plan of attack for determining future market direction based on factual evidence. In the 2nd video, I dive into short-term indicators that can sharpen your edge in the markets to better time your trades. Then I tell you about an indicator I stumbled on, that predicts short-term and opening market direction with an amazing degree of accuracy close to 95% of the time as well as how to determine intra-day movements and how to tell whether money is flowing into or out of stocks and what it means for intra-day price trends.
This module contains well over 3 hours of solid teaching.
ADVANCED TECHNIQUES AND EXPLOSIVE WEALTH BUILDING STRATEGIES
Not even one of these strategies requires any knowledge of ‘technical analysis’ – it can help, but it’s not required. These make money whether the market goes up or down. These are strategies you can manage based on ‘the numbers’. One important thing I should mention: There are ways to make money that are NOT obvious. For example, Strategy #1 is something I have been studying for years, and it works every time and cannot fail to work.
Explosive Strategy #1:
Using this one method I turned a $14,000 trade into a $75,000 profit in just 8 months. The most money at risk? Just $650. That was the total amount that was at risk when this position was initiated and NO more money was ever put into the position. Amazing profit/loss ratio. And it doesn’t matter if the stock goes up or down but does require an longer time frame- 6 to 8 months.
It is not uncommon for these trades to create the profits you can brag about. Want to make a killing in the market? It doesn’t get any better than this.
Explosive Strategy #2:
Another method I call “Flipping Stocks” let’s me buy stocks cheaper than anyone else and if the market does not cooperate with my plan – I get paid lots of money for waiting until it does! This is for bigger players with more capital… but when you have $15k or more to put to work, these longer term trades generate explosive profits.
I teach it to you in a nice 52 minute video.
Explosive Strategy #3:
This new strategy that has unlimited upside or downside potential and only $50 or so of risk! This strategy is extremely powerful and one of the biggest real ‘secrets’ that no one has ever discussed that I know of. Wait till you see the power of this strategy.
You can make $1000′s with a total risk of $50 or so. It’s extremely powerful. Think there’s no free-lunch on Wall Street? This isn’t one either but it’s as close as it gets to one! This is the perfect strategy for playing earnings reports, takeover news stocks and any stock you think will move big in any direction with little risk.
Explosive Strategy #4:
If you want to be more active in stocks but hate the risk, you’ll love this. Day trade without the risk normally associated with day trading. Can be setup to be an ‘semi-automated’ trading system. Very powerful and again another low risk, high earning strategy for more active participants.
This strategy includes 9 videos, and I take you through some real life trades over the course of 7 days and show you exactly how I make thousands of dollars with these trades.
I’ve also included 3 worksheets (Excel spreadsheets) for your convenience!
Explosive Strategy #5:
If you liked the idea of the monthly income trades but were wondering how to ‘turbo charge’ them to make a fortune, then you will love THIS. Instead of $1000-$2000 a month you could start generating an income in the $5,000 to $40,000 a month range after learning this and with a lot less stress while trading as ‘big’ as you want.
This last strategy is the ‘icing’ on the cake… the peak moment in all your hard study and will be worth 100 times what you paid for this course – maybe even more. Why didn’t I reveal this until the very end of the course? Simple: You would not be able to use this strategy without a good foundation that was laid out in the earlier Modules. Everything we have learned thus far has been leading up to these explosive strategies.
This course contains over 40 videos…
totaling over 24 HOURS of me teaching!
The videos and modules are very well organized in an easy-to-navigate membership area, and they are sequenced in a perfectly logical order so that you can learn the system one step at a time.
As I mentioned previously, you will not find this material anywhere else.
The course will be delivered to you 100% online, so you can get started RIGHT AWAY!
You will be able to download the videos right to your computer so you can watch them at your leisure. They will play on all kinds of computers… Windows or Mac. You may also make one copy of these videos on a storage device (CD, DVD or external drive) but may not allow anyone else to view, copy or share them. They are for your use only. (with the exception of your spouse)
So… what’s the price?
I’ve made this incredibly affordable so you can learn it without any serious financial stress.
As I mentioned I have been to seminars for $3,000 and $5,000 and you will get much more from this course than both of those combined. I’ve also seen one trading course that charges $7,500 just for online access to learn the basics of options!
So right there, you can see that the VALUE of this course is easily in the thousands.
But I’m not done adding value yet
If you join today, you’ll also receive these THREE fast action bonuses…
|FAST ACTION BONUS #1: Inside Days Strategy Video (69 minutes) + Ebook $147.00 Value – Yours free when you join today!
I created this mini-course to teach a very powerful indicator in the market, which can show you how to set yourself up for explosive profits. I use this strategy to rake in the profits time and time again.
FAST ACTION BONUS #2: “Xtreme Trading” Video (50 minutes)
$97.00 Value – Yours free when you join today!
As you may have noticed, while I do cover some day trading in the main course, it is is NOT a “day trading course”. However, I am able to apply my principles to a certain type of day trading, and I use this powerful strategy to grab profits on demand. This 50 minute video will show you exactly how I do it.
FAST ACTION BONUS #3: Monthly Trader Alerts
$150.00 Value – Yours free when you join today!
Each month I will email you a special trader alert with information about a trade I’m making, or other “inside info” to help you profit from the CURRENT market conditions, whatever they may be.
You’re just seconds away from getting full access to the complete course.
Sign up now and you’ll be on your way to trading success!
Okay, so now I’ve just added $394.00 worth of bonuses onto the course.. but I don’t think that’s enough..
So here’s what I’m going to do.. if you take action NOW I’m going to GIVE YOU MY EXCLUSIVE
Penny Stock Cash Ebook, sold HERE for $27 ABSOLUTELY FREE..
AND You Will Also Receive IPO SECRETS.. A $27 VALUE!
Plus M & A PROFITS.. Another $27 VALUE!
AND The TrailWind Trading System.. Yet ANOTHER $27 VALUE!
Considering the course itself is easily worth thousands, and even the bonuses are worth nearly $500, I originally decided to price the course at $997.00. I think you’d agree that it’s a very fair and reasonable price for the entire package.
However, I know that the economy has dealt a hard blow to many of the people who need this information the most.
Therefore, I want to make it as easy as possible for you to become a member today.
But instead of pricing it at $997.00, I decided to slash the price like a crazed ninja!
If you join today, you can have complete access to the entire program NOT FOR
Instead I’ve Decided To Give You The Entire Package
Of Over 40 Videos PLUS
Your Three Fast Action Bonuses Today
For One Low Price Of Only $97!
But since it’s Christmas.. I’m cutting the price even MORE!
That’s right.. for a limited time you can get this training for the
INSANELY low price of only $67! That’s $80 off of our regular price!
No Coupon Code Required.. but You Need To
Lock In Your Price Now Before It Goes UP…
This is a limited time offer so be sure to
lock in your membership now before we go back to the regular price!
That’s not a misprint. I’m going to give you FULL access to this potentially life-changing program for your first payment of only $397 $67 today.
You don’t have to get all the material. You will get the entire thing INSTANTLY when you join today.
Also, I want to let you know that there is NO UPSELL and NO RECURRING PAYMENTS. There is no “one time offer”, or anything else that you have to buy to complete the course. You are getting the FULL course and this is a LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP.
Initially I had considered breaking it into pieces and charging extra for the super-powerful strategies contained toward the end of the course, but I decided that you should have the ENTIRE thing, and I’m going to give it ALL to you in one membership.
Remember, you’re getting…
MORE THAN 40 VIDEOS IN THE COURSE
WITH OVER 24 HOURS OF TEACHING!
(Plus more in the bonus videos)
Most of the other (not mine) online “educational” products out there for “learning how to trade” consist of cheesy ebooks, with little or no helpful content.
So please don’t go wasting another $97 (or more) on yet another ebook that won’t help you get to where you want to be!
Instead, invest in this course which will truly put the knowledge into your hands and into your mind.
My course has everything needed to teach you how to make money like a pro with stocks and options.
But you’ll need to act fast.
I want to ensure an optimal quality experience for each and every one of my customers, which means I can not sell too many memberships.
For one thing, I want to make sure I’m able to answer as many of your questions as possible, and that won’t be possible if I allow too many people to join.
Second, I’m going to make sure that the membership area does not get bogged down by too many members. I insist that the downloads are nice and fast, so I will need to limit the membership.
The doors may be closing at any time, so please grab your spot now if this is something you would like to be a part of.
Are you ready to start making a killing from the market,
regardless of whether it’s going up or down?
Trade with confidence!
The Trading Pros
Questions? Email us at: TheTradingPros(at)Gmail.com
If you need help with downloading or logging in please visit our HELPDESK
P.S.- You could attempt to learn this by trial and error on your own, but I assure you it will be a MUCH more costly “education” than the one I’m offering you today for a very reasonable price.
It cost me years of frustration, bad trades, and huge financial losses before I figured out the “secret” system. I’ve watched too many smart yet “uneducated” people lose their shirts in the stock market, and I don’t want to see that happen to you. PLEASE… if you’re going to invest your money anywhere, get my course so you can avoid the pain. I’ll show you how to trade the low-risk, profitable way that will bring you profits regardless of whether the stock market is going up or down